Toronta: Plans to ban rickshaws!

[Trixi.com]

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Rickshaw rage
COUNCIL PLANS TO BAN OPERATION ON CITY'S CORE STREETS

By MATTHEW KWONG, TORONTO SUN

http://torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2005/06/17/gta_main200.jpg
Darren Robertson of Rickshaw
Service of Toronto yesterday
said if his runners are banned
from major downtown streets,
his business would go under.


Darren Robertson of Rickshaw Service of Toronto yesterday said if his runners are banned from major downtown streets, his business would go under. (Veronica Henri, SUN)

TORONTO HAS plans to drive off rickshaw runners, but the pedicab operators won't stand for it.

"You can be sure we're not going to let this go unchallenged," said Michael Langille, who operates Rickshaw Runners of Toronto Media. "We'll let a Superior Court judge think it over."

Langille's comments came after learning about the city's plans to restrict rickshaws from King, Queen and Front Sts. between Spadina Ave. and Jarvis St., as well as Gerrard St. between Yonge and Bay Sts.
Councillor Howard Moscoe charged that rickshaws were giving Toronto a reputation as a "rip-off joint."

"Most people who use the rickshaws are tourists. They don't have an avenue to complain," Moscoe said.

City lawyers advised it's not legally possible for a Toronto-wide ban.
Darren Robertson, owner of Rickshaw Services of Toronto, called the bylaw "ridiculously unreasonable," since it would cut his runners off from most of their clientele.

"These (streets) are like major arteries and that's where we operate," he said, adding that SARS and the NHL lockout have made times harder.
For much the same reason, though, Rod Seiling, president of the Greater Toronto Hotel Association, is pleased with the ban.

"We are fighting to regain our tourism business, and rickshaws have proven to be a detriment to tourism," he said.
Rickshaw driver Gary Smith called the ban "unfair."

"The new law is wrong and ill-conceived," said Smith, who works a 10-hour day during peak season and seven-hour days in the winter.
A Toronto rickshaw driver can make more than $250 a day, or as little as $30.
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[tdayuk]

Is there more info from them regarding there defence needs, as the upshoot maybe that any future Cycle rickshaws may fall faul of the same 'powers'.

Have they tried joining forces & asked for licencing.

In a few citys the licence allowes for 'special routes' maybe if its better then no jobs, then change the tactic to minimies the loss.

All the best of luck for your/there fight

[rickshaw92]

Well Tdayuk we are licensed and have been for 8yrs or so, as for joining forces, well that wont happen as the 2 owners dont like one another. As for pedicabs having to put up with this crap in the future, as far as city councel is concerned,pedi cab or rickshaw, its all the same. That said, these same clowns on city councel have had a hard on for us for years, somthing to do with us charging lots of money for rides. Well we for the most part ignore these things. Bussiness as usual in YYZed:)

[tdayuk]

Ah, you may have more problems that way. You sure they can't agree to stay in business, no need to get into bed but atleast share the fight for there future income.

We had quite a bit of mist trust when things got hot in London but after the LPOA got formed to fight for the industry most of the owners can atleast talk. It has turned out to benefit us as they have made friends in high places, which has saved lots of bacon & moved us to a point that we will survive attacks on the industry.

SO MAKE A ROUND TABLE & GET TALKING.


Well Tdayuk we are licensed and have been for 8yrs or so, as for joining forces, well that wont happen as the 2 owners dont like one another. As for pedicabs having to put up with this crap in the future, as far as city councel is concerned,pedi cab or rickshaw, its all the same. That said, these same clowns on city councel have had a hard on for us for years, somthing to do with us charging lots of money for rides. Well we for the most part ignore these things. Bussiness as usual in YYZed:)

[Trixi.com]

@tdayuk:
"... SO MAKE A ROUND TABLE & GET TALKING...."


I agree and think that the people in London are going the right way. It could be even helpful to make round tables BEFORE getting in trouble.

Saludos

[rickshaw92]

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/211472



Judge nixes rickshaw rates


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Pedicab owner challenged bylaw

May 08, 2007 04:30 AM
Peter Small
Courts Bureau

A judge has struck down the city of Toronto's caps on how much pedicab operators can charge passengers, calling them arbitrary, confusing and imposed in bad faith.
"The $30/$15 maximums set out in the 2005 bylaw can only have been selected on personal whim or random choice, and apparently without any forethought," Superior Court Justice Edward Belobaba wrote in his ruling, released yesterday.
Under the bylaw, the maximum fares are $30 for the first half our, $15 for each subsequent half hour.
The judge only struck down the maximum fares, which he said go "to the financial heart of a business operation."
He agreed they were enacted without discussion or analysis.
The $30 cap for all or part of the first half hour is also confusing, maybe incomprehensible, Belobaba said.
It theoretically allows the operator to charge $30 for even a five-minute ride.
But the judge left intact the rest of the city's two bylaws governing how pedicabs and rickshaws can operate, including a ban on "aggressive solicitation."
Michael Langille, who operates 14 rickshaws under the banner Rickshaw Runners of Toronto, the city's largest fleet, challenged the bylaws.
Langille said yesterday the decision effectively puts him out of business.
"They shot a fly with an elephant gun," he said. To survive, he continued to operate under the old rules, and his company was charged with 100 infractions. They were put on hold pending the judge's decision.
Now they will go to trial and Langille says if he is convicted on just seven, the city won't renew his licence.
In his suit, Langille alleged Councillor Howard Moscoe (Ward 15 Eglinton-Lawrence) proposed the regulations to drive him out of business after he refused to remove massage parlour ads from his rigs.
Moscoe poisoned the debate, and council enacted the bylaws arbitrarily and in bad faith, Langille's lawyer argued, effectively destroying his business.
The judge found no evidence Moscoe's proposal was motivated by anger or had tainted council's decision.
"I also find it telling that none of the other pedicab operators have joined in this court action," Belobaba wrote.
Langille also challenged restrictions in the two bylaws, passed in 2004 and 2005.



Moscoe , who heads Toronto's licensing and standards committee, said he was pleased that the regulations were largely upheld. "We will hold public hearings on what the rates ought to be, and set an appropriate rate," Moscoe said.
Some cities charge time-based rates, Moscoe noted.The current system of charging by the block can lead to very high charges, he said. A trip from the CN Tower the Delta Chelsea Hotel can come in anywhere from $70 to $120, Moscoe added.
With files from John Spears

[kokonutcreme]

An interesting read and something that we here will no doubt be avoiding. From what I have read my understanding is that it's an issue over what passengers are being charged. There also seems to be an inability for all parties to get together and talk.

I would support any council that steps in to make sure that passengers are being charged appropriatly. I wouldnt support a council that butted in to purely excercise it's muscle, which I don't think is the case here, from what I have read.

Because you have Rod Seiling, president of the Greater Toronto Hotel Association, supporting the ban there must be something wrong with the Rickshaw/Pedicab industry business model and/or the relationships between the 2 indusrtries.

Rather then fight the council or hotel industry, it would be far more beneficial to sit down and listen to them! Identify what the issues are and work together to solve them! At the end of it all I would hope that you walk out of the board room with a little respect for each other:D

:cool:

[Hev]

It is nice to want to sit down and talk with people in a constructive manner. Sometimes the people you are trying to sit down with are hell bent on driving you out of business.
It is obvious that the trend seems to be rickshaws are evil and should be done away with. Follow the money! Look at NYC,the Taxi and limo commission have money and the city councils love money. Pedicab firms are the poor relations and will never be allowed to play if taxi firms do not want them there.

[tdayuk]

Well, the round table of pedicab operators has ment another year is finishing a season but things are still hot & a recent released statment by the police is hinting at 'fun' in 14 days.

This is the usual hunt that comes after the holiday riders head out of town after doing crazy, so get ready for the next round of pedicabs in the pound.

The operators have managed to improve a few parts of the industry & pedicabs have been developing at an amazing rate in the UK.