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Thread: Brake design ideas

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    Lightbulb Brake design ideas

    In some of the past threads there has been some ideas about brakes and what is the best.

    Brakes range from none and all to dual disk, and everything in between.

    Even of the rickshaws in India and China still use the band on the drum with the center pull. My question is what does everyone think is best and what would the perfect braking system be for cost, effectiveness, and maintanence? Has anyone put brakes on a trailer that is operated by the driver?

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    It works well with fluid brakes on the trailer , by using a litle cable to produce the conection between the bike and the trailer.
    Note,lots of trailers use a combination of 2 brake sistem.
    So, if you have hydralic brakes on the bike, do it also on the trailer ( of couse, they are 2 separate sistems, 2 brake fluid tank..) and use a litle cable ( easy desatactable) to make the conection betwen sistems.
    Also, remember that ..if you got brakes on the trailer working correctly,it will be not necessary to brake with the bike... the trailler suports all in perfect conditions.
    I got a 18 meters vehicle ,with 3 trailers on it... The traillers they brake all at the same time and de front pulling car it doesnt uses its brakes if is attached to traillers.
    Easy and very save!....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    In some of the past threads there has been some ideas about brakes and what is the best.

    Brakes range from none and all to dual disk, and everything in between.

    Even of the rickshaws in India and China still use the band on the drum with the center pull. My question is what does everyone think is best and what would the perfect braking system be for cost, effectiveness, and maintanence? Has anyone put brakes on a trailer that is operated by the driver?
    My answer here is: ANY Twin hydraulic disc brake will do the job. I do reccommend the BIG MAGURA brakes. These are reasonably cheap, extremly efficent and the only maintenance you gotta do with them is to change the brake pads (usually once a year if you use your pedicab regularly)

    In the past we used to use HOPE C2 which was a great closed system, unfortunatley those are no longer in the produce.

    Some lads try to use one brake caliper only located on the axle. In my opionion it's not much cheaper and I would consider it as unsafe.

    Anyone else tried something different?

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    Cool Has anyone luck with cable pull disk brakes

    Has anyone had any luck with dual disk cable pull?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    Has anyone had any luck with dual disk cable pull?
    I have looked at doing this but decided that the friction involved with pulling two cables would be rather fatiguing, and would only get worse over time.

    Basically I went to a bike shop and did a test ride on two fairly high end bikes. One with mechanical disks and one with hydraulic. The amount of pressure required at the lever on the mechanical brakes was a lot more. To me in this case it was not about stopping power, but how much effort was requires to just get the pads to touch the rims. Big difference.

    Granted mechanicals are more simple to construct. Finding brake levers that pull 2 cables is not that hard. I saw a guy on ebay sellimg like ~70 old mongoose dual cable brake levers for 5$ each, and choppersus.com has some as well.

    I have been trying to tackle this problem with my trike. I was originally planning a single brake on the none drive wheel. This how ever is could be problematic as the seating arrangement will have some weight behind the rear axle, but most in front of it. My concern of course has been that if there is a weird situation that too much weight is behind the axle and I apple the single brake on the right wheel, that the front end of the trike would want to swing over to the right. (kinda like a kid's big wheel toy if you remember those.)

    Any way I have been trying to figure out what hydraulic brake lever would work well with the 2 matching single pot calipers that I have for the rear of the trike now. Basically I have come down to wanting a motorcycle, atv, or snowmobile brake lever to use instead of the a standard bicycle type lever.

    (From the following you may guess that I have been puzzling on this for some time.) Since the calipers that I have are early (2001) louise calipers made by magura, I went over to theirt forum. It seems that louise calipers have pistons ( slave cylinders) that are 22 mm in diameter. in that I want to use 2 of them, I end up with a total surface area of the pistons being ~3040 sq/mm. Also I have see that with the magura bike brakes they seem to use master to slave cylinder ratios of between 3.7 to 5.7 to 1. That means that the surface area of a slave cylinder is 3.7 to 5.7 time larger than the surface area of a master cylinder.

    examples:

    louise have a single moving piston slave is 22mm master is 12mm. ratio 3.7 to 1

    Gustav M have two moving cylinders. slaves are 18mm each and the master is 10.5 ratio is ~5.7 to 1.

    In that I have 2 louise calipers (with 22 mm slave cylinders each) That give me a total surface area of 3040. So to get in to the range of ratios that magura uses on their brakes I need to get a 13mm to 14mm diameter master cylinder. Also the mater cylinder would need to have a fairly long stroke. (How long I am not sure.)

    I could go on about all this but but I will wait until later. I am glad to see that there is a pedicab builders conner now.
    Last edited by Ken Cameron; 04-06-2008 at 08:08. Reason: cant spell

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    Default More on this subject found at the Magura forum

    I have been talking to some of the cool peeps at the magura forum on this matter. They have been very cool and helpful.

    Gustav M caliper with Louise lever mechnism

    read to your hearts content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cameron View Post
    I have been talking to some of the cool peeps at the magura forum on this matter. They have been very cool and helpful.

    Gustav M caliper with Louise lever mechnism

    read to your hearts content.
    Hi Ken,

    You can use the industrial BIG Master Cylinder from Magura, This lever is designed for the twin systems. This is a great lever with open system, will do the job with calipers from Magura. What more important it works with mineral oil same as the calipers you want to use.

    I'm afraid the Louise lever ma not have a long enough stroke to for with two calipers.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yendrek3 View Post
    Hi Ken,

    You can use the industrial BIG Master Cylinder from Magura, This lever is designed for the twin systems. This is a great lever with open system, will do the job with calipers from Magura. What more important it works with mineral oil same as the calipers you want to use.

    I'm afraid the Louise lever ma not have a long enough stroke to for with two calipers.
    Yendrek, you are probably right about the levers that I have not having enough stroke. They would also likely provide too much mechanical advantage, if I was able to get them to touch the disk before bottoming out on the handle bar.

    I just gave the folks at Magura USA a call. They told me that the Magura big caliper is designed to work on dual rotor systems and is designed to work with mineral oil and not DOT brake fluid. I was concerned that it would only work with DOT 5) He was not able to give me a specification on the bore and stoke of the master cylinder. He stated that the Magura big is usually paired with 2 Julie type calipers one of which is redesigned to work the opposite site of the wheel than the standard caliper.

    All together he was able to quote me a complete brake system including 1 Magura big lever, 2 Julie type calipers, 2 180 mm rotors, hose, fittings and tools to get the system connected for a total price of $227.28 I wish I had called Magura USA a long time ago as I have spent nearly that much already on brakes.

    When asked about the ability to use these with 203mm rotors, he said that the Julie caliper adapters that they have would only work on the standard caliper, and not the "mirror image" caliper designed for the other wheel. He suggested that I could make my own caliper mount. (Been there done that.)

    I also asked about the availability of a locking brake lever that would work as a "parking brake". I have seen these on other mainstreets but they seem to be on older models rather than newer ones.

    More on this later.

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    Hi Ken,

    You can always use this twin system with 180mm. One you ride a bit on them and the pads get on with rotors well it becomes so powerfull brake. Alternatively as the lads from Magura advised you you can always bulit your own mount for the the other caliper.

    From my point of view 203mm rotors are not necessarry in this job. We use in Maxpro Ecotaxi 180mm rotors and believe if you dont ware a seatbelts once the lever is pulled you might kiss the ground with your face. It's so powerful, good luck and look forward to your feedback.
    Last edited by Yendrek3; 05-06-2008 at 10:58. Reason: spelling

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    Default reply to this question from Billy O on Yahoo pedicab group

    Billy O of Arizona gave a great reply to my question asking about building your own brake systems. He spoke about how he had built up some pedicab brake systems from motorcycle parts in the past. Now he is on to using Magura "big" brakes, Check it out over here:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pedicab/message/3571

    BTW you will have to join the group to see get to the above link.

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